There’s No Pleasing Punks

In a very late episode with weird sound mixing, The Clash’s “Should I Stay or Should I Go” and Dexys Midnight Runners’ “Come On Eileen” compete in our twelfth matchup of the Jacktical Magic tournament.

Amelia and Cooper return to the dreary English Midlands and discuss Romani life, Disneyland’s biggest prick-tease, and the most weirdly serendipitous super group there’s ever been.

Which song will be declared the winner and move one step closer to the title of having the most Jack FM energy?

Your vote decides.

Cast Your Vote:  Each week, vote for the song you think has the most Jack FM vibes at instagram.com/jackticalmagic/

Call the Hotline: Tell us which song you think should win next week’s matchup. Leave a voicemail at (424) 666-1711.

Email Us: Send your Jack FM stories, questions, memories, or music anecdotes to jackticalmagic@gmail.com.

Theme Song: ‘Heavenly Pop Hit’ by The Chills. Used with permission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to Jactical Magic, a critical examination of North America's most baffling radio station, Jack FM. My name is Cooper Willis, and I'm joined by always, by always, by my co-host, Amelia Skinel. By always? Yeah, I have perfect attendance. Yeah, I know, but I wasn't commenting on your attendance. I was commenting on my sentence, by always. That can't be grammatically correct.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

No, by always. Like by the philosophy of always.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Ooh, that's deep. It's too early in the podcast for that kind of death.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

That's true. I'm getting a little mystical. A little woo-woo as people as the scumbags say.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

As the scumbags? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Yeah. But no, I get it. Crystals and astrology. Do you know your do you know your signs and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I'm a Gemini, and I mean that tracks. Talk about dueling personalities, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

You've got a real mean streak and then the real friendly fellow that we all know and love.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah. But he'll he'll turn on you. He will turn on you.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

I've been on the business end of that. There is, well, there's there's like seven more, maybe eight more. You got the you got the moon, you got the rising, you got the in Venus, or you got the Jupiter, like all of them place, and they all are special combos that mean something that long time ago someone made up. And now we take them seriously.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Interesting. Do you know yours? I don't I don't know mine.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Well, I am a Libra sun, an Aquarius moon, and a Libra rising. So, you know me, real well, I know Libras they're like scales. So they love balance. They appreciate beauty and art and the aesthetics, the loveliness of things. That's that's me. I'm an art appreciator. I have taste.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I would go as far as to say that you're a taste maker.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

Yeah, you're right. I've been early on some stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Okay. All right. Well.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

I should look into mine because I definitely get a lot of like Instagram reels talking about that kind of stuff. And and I'm always convinced that, you know, Mercury must be in retrograde, as they say.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Well, okay, so Mercury, Mercury and retrograde means that's more scientific. That's that's like telescopes, like showing it's more of a visual trick. The planets are still doing their thing. It's not like Mercury slows down or goes retrograde, whatever that means. It means like when we look in a telescope at Mercury, it seems like it's in the wrong place for a while. That's nothing we can't mix astrology and astronomy. Whenever I I have to think about whether I want to say astrology or astronomy. It's kind of funny that if we're talking about planets and the galaxy and stuff, I have to stop myself and be like, you want to say astronomy, not the witchy. Right. Not the witchcraft.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, and it's confusing like they couldn't just make it a completely different word because it is confusing. It sounds like biology. Yeah. Astrology.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

That sounds like the study of stars.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Yeah. Planet or alignology. I will work on that. Speaking of taste makers, audience, I sent Cooper a Vanity Fair article. I believe it was Esquire.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Late last year, Jason Bateman did a feature. He was on the cover. Looks the most like the coolest, best looking man I've ever seen. Yes. So good. Yeah. He has a great little beard going on. He's got longish hair. There was one picture where he wore a black leather jacket over a jean jacket.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

So cool. So cool.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

And Cooper's wear, like I he came on camera today and I was like, you're doing it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah. Trying my best.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

I got almost there.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I'm a little bit more Sean Hunter, I think. From Boy Meets World. I can't quite get to the Bateman yet, but I'm trying.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Maybe more like uh Eric Matthews right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah. Yeah, very Eric Matthews. Well, I'll take Eric Matthews.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Yeah. I like toward the end of Boy Meets World, they essentially wrote off Ben Savage because let's just say his genetics kicked in and they made him a yeah, they made him a kind of a he was already married to Topanga. Speaking of woo-woo, I like how they just dropped that character trait with Topanga.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

I assumed she was named after Topanga Canyon, where like all the hippies and the all the cool folky people, and she was woo-woo, and she could see auras and stuff. And Corey was like, you're so weird. And then two seasons later, she's normal, and suddenly Corey's in love with her. There's a big turn. And then I don't know, she she was fine. I liked Angela, the girl that Sean ended up marrying. They got really kind of they got a little horned up in the last couple seasons.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Yeah, it ain't.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

They got a Lawrence, they got a Lawrence brother, they they grabbed Sean. We're like, these guys are handsome. Let's put them in a loft with some chicks. We'll get Eric Matthews for comic relief, and then maybe pop into Corian Tanga for about five minutes. Right. And he's always boring and just wants to go to bed or something.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, they were like, Yeah, he he met the world. It's somebody else's turn. It's all of these other more attractive people's turn. Well, I appreciate the compliment, even though I do I have a long way to go to get to Bateman, but well, I didn't expect you to be him 48 hours later. Right. Yeah, I'm working with what I got. I didn't change anything except I shaved a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

You still have biology to, you know, push all that shit out of your head. Or is it bystronomy? By astronomy, yes. The alignments of uh well, I guess menstrual cycles are this is this is no no kidding it. Um nope. All right, so I don't even think we said the name. Welcome to Jack to come. Yeah, we did. You did that just once. What we usually do on this show is having 64 songs compete for the title of Biggest Jack FM Vibes. Last week, the two songs that went head to head were Green Days When I Come Around and Rolling Stones Start Me Up. Well, when I come around, one. So they're moving on to the next round. And this week we've got the clash with Should I Stay or Should I Go versus Dexie's Midnight Runners, Come on, I leave. We will take a tiny break, and when we come back, Cooper's gonna hit us with some clash. Sure thing. Okay. Sounds good. See you soon. Welcome back. Cooper, please.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

You ready?

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Begin. Yeah, please, after you.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I see. Um, this week is actually there's so many connections between these two bands. Did you find that in your research? It's insane.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Yes. And there's a lot of overlap with past music band past bands that we have.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

No, I liked music bands.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Past music bands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So, like, what's your favorite music band these days? What music bands are you listening to? When I saw these songs on the bracket, I wasn't totally psyched about having to do the research, but I actually found it much more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Yeah, me too. I think, you know, we have a lot of 9-11 era songs or alternative, like 90s. We just really don't have a lot of personal experience, like personal memories of when these songs were out. There's at least one song in each of our competitions that are, you know, of our lifetime or of our music appreciating time where we can maybe remember when it came out, or I don't have, yeah, like a personal memory tied to either of these songs.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Sure. I actually I agree with you, although, you know, I think that these songs kind of were always present in our lives, which is actually interesting when I get into the research on uh should I stay or should I go? Both groups started as punk groups. Both songs came out in 1982 and had very different receptions. Right off the bat, it was a total flop when it came out. It did not chart Rock the Casbuck definitely did better, but that kind of surprised me because I've always known this song. And it seems like it's been such a big part of our lives, and there's a reason for that, which we'll get into. So The Clash, this is their I think this is their fourth album. I forgot to write it down, Combat Rock. And by this point, they are kind of moving away from punk a little bit. They're embracing Jamaican reggae. And if you listen to Rock the Casbah on the same album, very disco for a punk band. You are right. There's enough information about the clash that I'm not gonna get too too into on it. But McJones writes, Should I stay or should I go? Wrote the song as a demo, brought it to the group. He's not the lead singer though, right? Joe Strummer is the lead singer. Joe Strummer's the lead singer, but they are kind of splitting. Sometimes McJones sings. But so he wanted, he didn't want to sing the song. He wanted Joe to sing it. Joe was like, No, I I kind of like what you're doing on the demo. I think you should do it. And basically the only way that he convinced him to sing it was that he, Joe, was going to do the background vocals in Spanish. This was just like a goof that they decided while they were recording. And they didn't know Spanish. So they had to have a translator come in to help them translate all these like background vocals, which is that's interesting to me because my whole life of hearing this song, I know people are shouting stuff all throughout the song, but I've never stopped to listen to it or looked up what the lyrics are. I've never seen or listened to know that it's Spanish.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

People are saying things in them in the song.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah. So so Mick, Mick will do like da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then there's people going, like throughout the whole the second verse. There's people just shouting stuff. Great energy. I had no idea it was Spanish. The the guy who helped them was basically like they fucked it up so bad that it's barely Spanish. It's more Tex-Mex, which's interesting for a couple Brits doing some Tex-Mex. I bet British people, when they first ate Tex-Mex food, they were like, this is it. Like, don't you think? No, they were like too spicy. They didn't like it. Yeah, I guess that's not like it. No, they're used to blood sausage.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

They're the spiciest they get is maybe a curry, maybe a little paprika. Maybe they have some sort of stupid potato chip that has like something hot in it, like some sort of mustard root. I think Tex-Mex or just Mexican, too spicy for the British.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Okay. If there's any uh Brits listening, please hit us up with uh with the answer of all of yeah. Does all of England hate Tex-Mex?

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yeah, just generalize all of England and reach out to us. Do you have you have London Calling, right? Everybody. Yeah, I have London Calling. Right. Yeah. Like I have buying all.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

I think I have two of them. I do not have combat rock. This is just, yeah. London Calling's an essential. You know, they people give the Clash a lot of flack for kind of not sticking to their punk roots. And very much by this album, that's the case. This album's just kind of all over the place.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

I find that when punks complain, people shouldn't listen to them so much. Sure. Like it seems like they're always calling people out for something they do wrong.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Well, you know, I think this is kind of what we talked about last week with Green Day. You can't become a famous band and please the the counterculture punk audience that doesn't want you to sell out. It's impossible. So there just comes this point where it it happens. It happens naturally. And the clash kind of, like I said, they stop leaning into punk and they're playing, they're they're making songs that can be played on the radio. And there's there's a lot of great songs. This one, it kind of predicts Mick Jones's exit from the clash. He writes it, should I stay or should I go? And following the combat rock tour, Joe Strummer asks him to leave.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Okay. It's kind of interesting that they, you know, they worked so hard to get this song on the album. And then it was just kind of like, well, yeah, maybe I think you should go. And Mick Jones says that he didn't write it about that, but that seems kind of suspicious.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

I figured it was about after a date. Like, do you want to come up? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

But so yeah, the song comes out in 1982, bombs. No airplay. Which, like I said, that seems crazy to me. And the clash essentially breaks up. Mick Jones goes on to join a supergroup called General Public with a certain drummer from another band that you're about to talk about in a little bit. He was very briefly in General Public. I think he didn't even make it through the first album, maybe, because then he went and started his band, Big Audio Dynamite.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah. So then the song kind of is dormant. It's it's nothing. It really gets no radio play until 1991, where they get approached by Levi's to use the song in a Levi's commercial. Now The Clash has previously up to this point said absolutely not, no advertising for anything. But they leave this decision up to Mick and they say, How do you feel about a Levi's commercial? He kind of says, Well, Levi's are kind of part of the rock and roll scene. So he allows it. And then the song totally takes off. 1991, almost a full decade after its release, that's when it becomes a popular song. Both of these songs came out the year I was born. This is certainly the time I was starting to like explore music and listen to music in the early 90s. I think that it just probably always felt like it was a part of my life because I started to hear it on stations like Jack FM around this time. It's, you know, I would make the case for the Jack FM of it all here because it the song itself had a second life. It's not so much a second act in terms of the band changing, but the song was saved by stations like Jack FM. And they really have Levi's to thank for that. And it hit number one once a Levi's ad came out to not chart at all in 1982 and then to hit number one is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Good. And are they are they together in some way today?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Well, Joe Strummer's dead.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Not long after that, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

No, he he lived because remember he did the awesome uh John of what was it called? John of Arcadia? No. Uh John of from Cincinnati. He did the theme song for that.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

Ugh boy, I could not sit through that fucking show.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I know. I feel like that was a show that Cole and I we tried to like. I I actually think that we liked the show because of the Joe Strummer intro or the theme song. But interesting, Big Audio Dynamite's second album, Joe Strummer, produced it and they got together to write a couple songs. So clearly there was just no hard feelings. Actually, didn't do a lot of research on why Mick had to leave. I'm pretty sure that you could find that somewhere on the internet. But yeah, so what are your thoughts on? I feel like I know the answer to this, but let me hear some thoughts about the clash.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Okay, well, first of all. Miss me with the clash. No, well, no, if we're talking the Ramones or Sex Pistols or Clash, like I'm all about the Clash. Okay. Well, one, I I guess I did hear it maybe mid to late 90s. I thought it was a violent femmes, or it kind of sounds like a party song. Or what's that? It's that one band that everybody but me wants that. They kind of do silly words and stuff. Uh they might be giants.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

You thought that was the vibe of should I stay or should I go?

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah. I thought it could have been them. I I didn't realize, yes, that they might be giants guy has a very different toad-like voice. But I didn't know. I didn't know. But I was so surprised to find it was clash because I had always figured they were more punk, but they're not. I love Joe Strummer's story. That's kind of where I spend most of my research. Okay. He's awesome. He was born a rich kid.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah. Like of a British diplomat or something, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Yeah, yeah. He yeah, he his dad wanted him to put on a suit, follow in his footsteps or something. And he he runs away. He lives in povels and squats, and he had a you know an inheritance or a trust fund. He didn't give a fuck about it. And he and he's a total socialist. They live by big time socialist where he does or did I really liked his leftist attitude and anti-capitalist uh beliefs. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, I was just gonna say it's interesting that he grew up with the silver spoon and he chose to be punk. And yeah, that's that's really cool. And I think that some people probably look down on that aspect that he was actually rich and playing punk, but but I still I agree. His beliefs were great.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

There's no pleasing punks.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, I think that's it's just a thing. It's I think it is impossible.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

You're like a tiger mom or something. Except tiger moms want their kids to be successful and rich. They don't want their favorite people to live their own lives or we like you under our conditions.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Right. It's very gatekeeping. It seems very anti the idea of punk in general, the way that punks act about music. But I don't know. Militant. Yeah. You know, I actually I like a lot of the songs where the clash kind of leans into the reggae, and it all becomes part of that ecosystem of punk. It's punk, which we I hope we'll be talking about in your segment, because it's like there's the punk, there's the two-tone ska, there's the reggae. This is all part of this kind of subgenre sandwich between disco and new wave and pop rock and roll.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

The English beat was kind of do you think that's where they came from and stuff?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I have a lot to say about the English beat for when we talk about Dexie's Midnight Runner.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Oh, wow. Okay. I only did very shallow research on both of these, but uh the things that I decided to hold on to, I I really rabbit holed and probably will not give you a comprehensive overview of Dexies and Come On Eileen. Um I won't probably be talking about the English beat or punk as you want me to, but I'll try to fill in the gaps. As far as clash music, should I stay or should I go? Kind of bugs me, but I like the clash more than this song.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

So that's all awesome. I agree. I like the clash more than this song. I do think this song has great party energy. It is a cool song. It's not at all a punk song in my brain. If another band did this song, I would think it was really great. When I hear it, it's very much like a uh buddy holly kind of song. Just kind of an early, early rock and roll feeling, like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-no-do-no-no. Like you could, if you you could buddy holly the hell out of this song. Um should I stay or should I go? Wow, you're right. Um, I like this, the chorus that just has that, it picks up, it's got that like choir energy.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Real, real bouncy beat.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

You're right about the buildup and the craziness toward the end. I guess I don't find it satisfying the way it just the the just all stops, goes silent, and then it just maybe I wanted it to go somewhere. I always call it when songs do that, or anything does that, the big thunder mountain of whatever. You're like, okay, this is gonna be good. Okay, well, this is fun, but this ending's gonna be phenomenal. And then you're back in the station. Wait, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

That ride always feels like you're about to have something spectacular happen, and then it just never does. Especially the third incline is so long and has that idea of like, oh, the tracks broken and we're gonna fall, and there's dynamite everywhere. And then it's just kind of like a very mellow, not at all a dip.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Just kind of like you're still going through scenery, but at a low speed.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

You can feel the energy of the riders leave. Like everyone was on board with having their hands up for the first couple rounds. But then yeah, that back half is like, okay, um, that's it. That's all we got. Did you ever do the is one of those Disneyland secrets, the goat turn or whatever it's called? Did you ever try that? What is that? So there's this one billy goat that's on a rock and you zoom past him. And when you go past them, the ride banks really hard. I don't, I don't know who these dorks are, but you have to watch the goat like turn to look at the goat the entire time through that bank, and it it feels like you whip through it and it kind of is disorienting, and it's actually makes the ride a lot more fun. So you have to be on the side where the goat is, which I don't remember, but then you whip past it and you watch the goat the whole time, and it feels exciting for a minute. Nice roller coaster hack. Love a roller coaster. Some Disney adult dork had to figure out a way to make Big Thunder Mountain more exciting.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Well, I love the aesthetic. Right. God, I love how I wish they would build out just the Big Thunder world. I love the prospector stuff. I love the red rocks, the minecart kind of stuff. Oh, I feel so great going through it. Yeah. Yeah, I just wish there were it was a little more substantial.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

No, yeah, that's that's all I have to say about the clash. It's fun. It's a fun song. I'm kind of surprised that it didn't catch on in 1982, especially when we talk about the next song. Okay. Um, so why don't we take a quick break and we'll be back to talk about Dexie's Midnight Runner. This bunch of songs and are all in Jack FM is wrong. Just like your March Madness bracket. And we're back. Are you ready, Amelia, to tell us about Dexie's Midnight Runner? Come on, Idley. Yeah. Do you want to finish a Teasy Gordita Crunch?

SPEAKER_04 24:34

I'll I'll be housing it while you talk. Okay. All right. All right. So we're going back to the Midlands of UK, North of England, late 70s, early 80s. You know, Margaret Thatcher being a total bitch. You know, just closing down British industry in favor of, you know, just off. What are you laughing about?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I was thinking about speaking of all these punk songs. And do you remember the Fred Armison Saturday Live sketch where it was like a punk band that was pro Margaret Thatcher?

SPEAKER_04 25:09

No, but that's beautiful. And it was like, Margaret Thatcher, you're all right. Very good. Go ahead. So the Midlands, this has all been covered in, I believe our episode is called Extreme Harmonicing. So check that out if you haven't. So if you haven't, why not? Like, why haven't you listened yet? What are you doing? Yeah, how are you here? But uh she's killing the steel mills, killing the mines, killing the factories. Like I said, this was like an Allentown situation, or Bethlehem, actually. I just learned that Allentown from the Billy Joel song, if he actually wanted it to be Bethlehem, but it was hard to rhyme. So anyway, these young people, their dads had all these good industry jobs, not good, but these young kids are not even getting those jobs anymore. They're not doing well. Kevin Rowland, a little near do well, he's been arrested several times before even turning 16. He drops out of school to his Irish parents. Uh, he's he's a he's disappointing. And once again, we're back in the most fascinating scene we have discussed, in my opinion, of all of Jactical Magic, Northern Seoul. Now, if you don't remember this, there are these kids in industrial towns that would go to these ballrooms, do a lot of crank and meth and just break dance to really obscure Seoul and Motown and blues, like American things that weren't a hit in the United States. These British kids loved it. They were doing some form of breakdancing, really high BPM. I love it. They it's not drinking, but it is smoking cigarettes, doing uppers, and eating soup all night. Right. Kevin Rowland, he gets into this scene. You know, he probably sees, he probably sees Soft Cell there having some soup, causing sweat to collect on the ceiling.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah. Oi. So he Kevin, yeah, Kevin was in a punk band called the Killjoys, and then he discovered Northern Soul, and he was so into it that he kind of abandoned his punk roots to really take on Northern Soul.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Or Northern Soul. Oh, okay. Right. I mean, they're probably nicer. Oh, yeah, they are way, yeah. Northern Soul is way more positive, not as gatekeepy as the punks. Right. You're always, yeah, you're always having to do a purity test with punks. And Dexies Midnight Runners is kind of named after that scene because everyone took Dexadrine, Dexa, amphetamine, just meth. Kind of a shit that Hitler was giving his soldiers. Keeping them awake, keeping them productive. So Dexies Midnight Runners, well, at least the Daxies means that, but I feel like Midnight Runners could also be a reference to that because they're in the middle of the night and they're breakdancing and going real fast and the and the BPMs. That's my theory. But I don't know. I that's kind of the only backstory I have. Hold on. He started a band. They got a single called Gino, which was named after Johnny Ray, I think, who who is a like a soul artist from America. Like, and God, these British kids, they fucking love the blues. They love Soul. They love American rock and roll. They might be onto something. I don't know. I know Gino came out, and Kevin's a weirdo. And he didn't like his cut of the royalties. He waited outside the studio until the producer left to get a coffee, got into the door, locked himself inside, and took the tapes to the album and kind of held it hostage to renegotiate. But I think they played ball. So good for him. I don't know. What else? I don't have a ton. I there was, I mean, I there's a ton to say, but I just didn't want to remap history and stuff. So I want to talk more about the vibes of this early time leading up to Gino or Come on Eileen. I know when he formed Dexie's Midnight Runners, he wanted no drugs, no alcohol right before the show. They would rehearse nine hours a day. He was a real taskmaster. But what do you gotta say?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

What do you gotta say, Cooper? You're right. Kevin is weird. He starts out in this punk scene. He's taken by the Northern Soul scene. He really wants to embrace his Celtic background. And at a time in 1982, when the radio station is just synthesizers, he puts out an album filled with banjos and fiddles and weird stuff that horns. But in my mind, I've always thought that Dexie was kind of ska adjacent, that that they were part of that same two-tone world. It's a specific kind of ska that really gained popularity in the early 80s with Madness, with the English beat, uh, the specials. Probably skipping ahead a little, but they were basically offered the the keys to the two-tone kingdom by getting on a record label that had Madness, had the specials. And Kevin was like, No, I don't want to be a part of that scene. I want to be my own thing. One magazine actually referred to them as the horniest ska band, and he hated it. He wanted it to be that they were doing their own thing, that they were taking pieces of punk, pieces of northern soul, and he actually ended up going on the Clashes Manager's label. So here's another little connection. They they went with the Clashes Manager.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Taxies Mid Iron Runners, it is not your average 80s band. Uh, it's he gets 10 people, band of musicians, and they wear overalls with no shirts, red bandanas. They, yeah, they're dressed like uh I kind of thought of it as like Dust Bowl Dick Whitman flashbacks from Mad Men. Whenever I see Dick Whitman's dad, he looks like he's from Dexies Midnight Runners. And in the video, no offense to the uh Cynthia and Romani people, but they look like a pack of gypsies.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

But that was also like always, that wasn't just for that video. That was like always what they were like.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Yes, yes, yes. The album was called Tura, Lura or whatever. But yeah, it's really borrowing from Celtic Irish folk. Come on, I lean now that I learned that, it does sound a lot like Irish folk. I growing up, I had to go to all of my sisters' Irish dance performances competitions, and it gets fast, it changes tempo. And I'm gonna get into I know you hate it when I talk about technicality of music, but that's oh it's it's got it's got three key changes. Yeah. Goes F major, C major, and D major. Can you explain or like hum that or point that out?

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Um, I mean, when we talked about hooked, we talked about how your bass note is where you want the chorus to resolve or where you expect it to go. What this means, that it has the three key signatures, is the chorus is a in a completely different key than the verse. Okay. You can feel a shift when you're listening to it that it feels like you kind of fell off a little step. And that is what is happening. You're you're shifting where you are on the chord progression for the chorus. And not only does it have those three key signatures, it also has mixed tempos throughout the entire song.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

It goes from 107 BPM to 214 BPM, which is very northern soul coded. Yeah. Um, and then there is yeah, a bar in two-fourths time, or I guess two-fourths time pre-chorus.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Okay, so now who's the fucking nerd?

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Hum or sing for me. So F major is the I'm not Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I mean, I would imagine it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Okay, and then do that's the C major, and then come on, Eileen is D major.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Correct. Okay. Yes, that is correct. So so it's dropping a full two notes when it when it hits the chorus, because that D major change is super weird because D major is not part of the C major uh scale. Uh-huh. Like if you sing do re mi fa sola ti do, uh, if you were to sing that in C or F, D major is not a part of those uh scales. So it's not complementary to the chord progression. God, music is so hard. I have no idea what that is. I mean, this song actually is incredibly complicated. And then, you know, on top of it, it has the outro, the the Hava Nagila of it all. Like the slow building.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

Yeah, like tetrasons. I forgot that. God, this song fucking rules. It really does. It's really good song. This song is uh like I'll I'll say I adore this song. Yeah, it makes me feel great. It's beautiful. I I I I liked a lot of their I listened to uh two of their albums, and Queen sounds like them. And like uh yes, they are gifted, they are interesting, they are absolutely unique. Come on Eileen. Actually, my first memory of come on Eileen is my oldest cousin. We were at a wedding and come on Eileen comes on, and he fucking, we don't know, he was like in the back of the room having a conversation or something. Yeah, and he just materializes on the dance floor, yeah, fucking thrilled. And I have never, I have never enjoyed this custom. I have never just no. That's so funny. If I could go back in time, I'd be I'd be right there on the dance floor with him. Yeah. I probably was. I hate when kids go to weddings. They just get sweaty and start sliding along the floor. Absolutely. And like the like the older women take off their shoes on the floor, like stop it. God, this is a wedding. This is a this is a special event. You guys are acting like hicks. Um just sweaty, sweaty boys running in slides. Sweaty boys. But anyway, my cousin, I I have never seen someone so happy for a song to come on. And I I give him props because I love this song. I will never forget this video, which it has like a lot of like black and white photos and black and white footage. The guy on the um tarmac of the airport, that is that Johnny Ray who came to town on did not know that. And I don't photos might be of his parents. I didn't love or I didn't find that out. I know that Eileen's not a real person.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

The Eileen and I heard that it is. I heard that it was a relationship that he had when he was like 13, and like forcing this early sexual relationship of a of a little teeny. So basically trying to be like, come on, come on, let's just let's just pour it.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

And then and then did he come on Eileen? Like, don't do not do it inside. Do not yeah, you do, yeah, whatever you do, I would be fucking dead. So he came, so he did a little come on Eileen. He got some come on Eileen. Now I'm never gonna now I'm gonna think of that when I hear this song. Well, then don't contradict me. Don't interrupt and undermine my facts. Eileen wasn't about anyone, but I do like oh god, um got a nosebleed happening.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Oh, I'm sorry. Uh listeners, just so you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna power through this, but my nose just started bleeding because I have a terrible sinus infection. So if I sound more Chucky Finster than normal, that's what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

He's cramming a torn-up ball of tissue up one of his nostrils, up one of his nose holes. The things I do for you people. Yeah. He's he could pass out if not attended to. But yeah, I'll always remember the video. I feel like I could see a lot of England in old music videos. The like village-ishness, like buildings are close together, the signs are a little weird, the cars aren't huge. Yeah. Everything just looked a little overcast, or just like there's so many videos. Uh, the only other one I can think of is the um take on me where when he's in the cafe, not the animated cool rotoscoping part. But yeah, you can just feel the Britishness of like a just a British town. Yes. I always I was like, this is very English, whatever this is. Yeah. And I don't know. I like I said, I adore this song. Dexie's Midnight Runner didn't stick around very long. In 1985, Kevin, he's a he's so weird. He like switches identities almost, like goes, puts on a fancy suit and just kind of makes like a new sound, and that doesn't do very well. And then he goes bankrupt. I don't know what happened with his Dexies money. And in 99, he gets into this queer gender bending phase. Yeah, me too. He's got an album where he's wearing like a silk negliger and thigh highs, and he's being a little just a embracing a kind of a different sexuality and gender. He it actually reminds me of like the Kevin Barnes period when Yeah, that's that's what I was gonna say. When of Montreal just drove off a cliff and became became so bad. So then Dexies, they're back, they're not called Dexies Mini Runners, but they're just called Dexies. And what I've heard is really good. It's is it? I like it. It's it's just impressively good for a reunion band. Who knows how many people are left, but um, I don't know. How do you feel, aside from it being complicated? What are your thoughts about Dex Season the Night Runners?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Well, I have always really liked this album a lot. I really love the uh Van Morrison cover, Jackie Wilson said. It's just that old world vibe that they brought to this song or this whole album. It certainly doesn't sound like New Wave and it doesn't sound like punk, and it doesn't really sound like the Northern Soul that it's inspired by. It's it is its own thing. He created something completely original. And in fact, this is a rare case where when he turned this song in, the record company didn't like it. They didn't want it, and they said it's not a single. In every other case that we've had they want a single. Yes, but in the record company pushing, and at this point, you know, still kind of early in his career, he didn't really push back too hard on that because he didn't want his merry band of gypsies to like fall because of his art. He was actually thinking, like, if this album doesn't do well, I'm going to find a new way to make money. And some radio promoter was like, No, this is a single, like, you should absolutely play this on the radio. And so he convinced Kevin to push for it and like to make sure it's on the album. You want to know something crazy about this song? Yes, please. Uh, while we were talking about the clash, not charting, this song went to number one in 1982. Guess what? It dethroned. Oh, oh shit. Billy Jean dethroned.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

It went to number one in the UK or in the UK.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yes. Big, huge smash hit. Unbelievable to think that it almost wasn't on the album because of how weird it is. And like, yeah, they are a little bit hard to pin down what they are at this time period, but clearly it was a direct fucking hit into what people wanted to actually listen to. And it still is. When I think about Come on, Eileen, I kind of box it into the like, yeah, everybody's gonna sing that at a wedding or throw that on at a bar, everyone's gonna sing it. Yeah. But I I'm like, I'm gonna be one of those people. This isn't like a sweet Caroline thing where I'm like a little rolling my eyes at it. I'm like, no, I'm I'm I'm gonna be like your cousin. I'm out on that dance floor, I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

I might try it, karaoke, because when I've been doing singing the parts here on the podcast, I sound excellent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

And we've had listeners right in too. I didn't realize Kevin was in the studio with us.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Okay. I I love this song. I love them. It does have a very, they just have a gypsy vibe. And I'm saying gypsy because I did a lot of research on gypsies for some reason with this song. They are not, they're not, they have no lineage, but it's got like a just a group of traveling poets or bohemians or and I say gypsies because a lot of gypsies, especially UK and the United States, they are not offended by that word. Because it no longer means little pickpockets and fortune-tellers. Yeah, I just think of it as like a little tribe of traveling, traveling wheelberries. I like I imagine those beautiful wagons. It came from the word Egyptian because like they originally came from northern India and then just kind of traveled their way through Asia and Europe, and then they just they just stay on the outskirts. They're good people, they have their own values, they're very clean, they're obsessed with cleanliness.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

That's all. Couple more connections. I in the first episode I had spoken about Dexies Midnight Runner being a supergroup, but I was mistaken because I was thinking of General Public, who the drummer of Dexie's Midnight Runner left or actually was fired and then joined General Public right around the same time that Mick Jones did. Holy shit! I guess the story is that they would listen to demos of bands on the road, and Dexie's Midnight Runners, probably specifically Kevin, really hated the beat, like boo their demos when he heard it. Like just really, and then you know, the drummer leaves and immediately goes and starts a band with the lead singer of the beat. It's so interesting. So yeah, general public is the beat. Uh, I'd want to say the specials, the clash, and Dexies Midnight Runner, members of all those bands together. Real good stuff. Yeah. But yeah, it's just it is interesting to me. Both these bands start from punk roots, they both broaden their horizons. The Clash goes a little bit more Jamaican. Dexies goes with the northern soul, but not really. Like it's it really is their own thing. Like, you know, you know who a modern day version, you're right, with of Montreal. Also, a little bit arcade fire has that same sort of vibe where it's like we're we're a we're a tribe and we do our own thing. You're right. And yeah, I don't know. This this album is really solid, but this song uh transcends. It's it's such an excellent song. Very interesting episode. I can't believe all the all these little connections.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Funny little thing. Um, I didn't know they were, yeah, I didn't know they were connected. I knew that I knew the Dexies and Soft Sal thing, but I did not know all that about the club. Okay, so and so we will just take a short break when we come back. Your results. See you soon. The following takes place between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

93 7, Jack FM.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

We're back. Thank you for sticking around. And so I'm gonna go ahead. The thing about should I stay or should I go? I do know it's Jack FM due to its like woo and kind of a high school, high school reunion kind of vibes. But I think Jack FM prefers rock the Casbah. I think that would be what more people know, especially like if they had to point out the Clash. I think Rock the Casbah. I think Jack FM loves songs that feel that once feel like novelties or feel like oddities. Later in the tournament, we've got Hey Mickey, we've got 99 Luft Balloons, like Love Shack. They take songs that are originally a little quirky, maybe even Baby Got Back. And then today they people love them and take them seriously. This one's kind of going on feelings. And yeah, we're feeling, we're feeling come on, Eileen. I I I do know it's on Jack of M and it's probably one of my favorite songs they play.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

I would, oh, I'd be so happy to hear that. I think that there are things that make Should I Stay or Should I Go worth mentioning, especially kind of this late in life resurgence. Very much their success was because of a commercial. I definitely don't think this is the best clash song. I I would think it was probably the most popular now, but I do agree that Jack FM probably prefers Rock the Caspah. And going through the Jack Doctrine, I want to like check off the boxes. I think that Come on Eileen doesn't necessarily check the boxes as we have it. It doesn't quite fit, and it is such a good song that it almost gives me pause to vote for it. But I too am voting for Come On Eileen.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Okay. I oh, I I also forgot to mention we didn't the soft sell connection with the Levi's commercial. Tainted Love had another resurgence when the Spike Jones emergency room commercial with Tainted Love. Right. So so weird and cool. And maybe we need to find out what the clash thinks of Northern Soul. Maybe they were there. Okay, everybody. You just experienced a time jump. It is me, Amelia. We like to give you as much time to vote as possible. So we record the results just before releasing the episode. And presently, Cooper is in Florida for spring break. Like I'm serious. He's just never stopped going down to Florida during spring break. This weekend I texted him to arrange a time to record this, and he wouldn't commit to a time. I was getting a little frustrated, and I asked him, like, when are you going to grow out of this? And he didn't answer. I kind of figured I might have hurt his feelings. Uh, but then I got a text from him in the middle of the night saying, Let me let me pull it up. Okay. I thought about what you said, Amelia. You're right. And for the rest of the week, I'll be subsisting purely on a diet of MILF Pussy. Jesus. Then I texted him yesterday to see if he wanted to jump on for the results. He replies with let me get it. Okay. No can do, Amelia. There's a flotilla of humanitarian aid on its way to Cuba, and I'm getting on that boat. I happen to think that was wonderful, uh, bringing aid to the good people of Cuba. Uh, and I told him how much I admired him. And then he replies, quote, Yeah, right, Amelia. This is the best chance I have to get my family sugar plantation back. Oh boy. We do have a voicemail this week.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Hi, Jackstical friends. Um, I'm calling in today to cast my vote for come on Eileen as the most Jack FM song this week. Um, well, I do think between the two options, um, Eileen is superior in every way except personal. Is because it's like um. I'm pretty sure the same year, maybe the year of her, isn't is iconic because it's a popular song that a lot of people like. Because some of adolescents realize that they were too small comes play um undeniably catchy sum. Um to me is more difficult. Um Jim was like asking the evergreen question: should I stay or should I go? And the answer is clear. You should go straight to hell. Also on Combat Rock.

SPEAKER_04 52:50

And I think it's over. Thank you for the voicemail. I don't think you said your name. I didn't catch it, but yeah, thank you for your message and your vote. If Cooper were here, he would probably just love that you mentioned that both of these songs came out in the same year. That is up his alley. So, yes, thank you. I will add that mystery caller's voicemail to the tally. And now I have the results of this week's matchup, which is Should I Stay or Should I Go by the Clash versus Come on Eileen by Dexie's Midnight Runners. And with 64.71% of the vote, come on Eileen will be coming on to the next round. And should I stay or should I go? I'm afraid you do indeed need to go. You got 35.29% of the vote. Great job, anyway. Okay, so if you thought that was exciting, you can vote in our Instagram stories at JackticalMagic, vote there, and leave us a voicemail. Our number is 424 666 1711. You can uh let us know which song has the biggest Jack FM energy, and we will count that as an extra vote. Join me in Cooper next week, God willing. Uh I got my melody pop primed, and the two songs that we'll be facing off are Billy Idol, Money Money. I would say the ending.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Versus the New Radicals get what you give.

SPEAKER_04 55:21

Yeah, no, I don't even know what part of the song that was. Okay, but you will vote on Instagram at Jactical Magic. Um sorry for this episode being several days late. But we love you and we'll see you next time.